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Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

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Will You Be Able to Make It? 2pm-6pm, Sat 17 Sept 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by WongKN on Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:57 pm

Elhefe,

We agreed we shall take a raincheck on your offer so don't think you have escaped !!

My original intention was to address the suggestion that the DACs we have for the event are not properly indicative of the current available technology. So I wanted participants to be able to hear 'proper' DACs instead of just reading about it. But after a quick discussion with the admin, we decided it would be counter productive and will veer off the original objective of our event.

As for reports of the event, I am sure many forumers will be putting up their own personal review of it after it is over. And I am sure there will be lots of photos as well (I hope).
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by elhefe on Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:37 pm

No worries WongKN,

Lets enjoy the event. Bottomline is we get to hear to the music which is the very soul of hifi. You guys better select nice music for the event Smile

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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by jokiarch on Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:31 pm

DrWho wrote:Jo Ki is right. It is not appropriate to have a shoot out at CMY specially using a competitor's product which will most probably turn out as the clear winner by virtue of others not being in the same league. Shoot out should not be carried in a public event unless dealers of the all the products are present to protect their interest and criterion setup before hand. Let us just enjoy this event rather getting stressed over trivial matters.
DrWho and all, when we are offered a venue (CMY) to host event like this, we should reciprocate with gratitude giving their generous offer its due consideration and understanding. May be some of you think that CMY also benefitted by having many audiophiles congregating the shop and lock in business. Whatever, HF4S benefitted a lot more by having a free avenue to stage an event plus free use of good yet respectable equipments & speakers for the event. Mucking this one up, the future HF4S events will suffer indeed.

DrWho is right, if this is equipment shoot-out, we should leave it to the dealers to protect and handle their equipment. Certainly I would not like to be put in the hot seat, and neither should HF4S.

Jo Ki
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by jokiarch on Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:45 pm

Instead of just Part I by Admin and Part II by me, can I suggest Part II to be staged by WongKN on what he has prepared for our fellow but very active viagra charged friends in NSAG recently? I missed that event held in MAXX and I hope to make back here Sad . I will push back mine to Part III.

I think what WongKN has is very useful info on CAS.

Perhaps after Part III, I would suggest VS126 to bring his W4S, everything of what he has to show us the latest and mightiest offerings to conclude the finale of the event? Then, all will be pleased.

Has anyone bought Amara latest version for the Mac? I have heard what it does in KLIAV 2011, with and without it on Mac, makes substantial audible difference. This would be good if we could include this.

Jo Ki
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by WongKN on Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:25 pm

Thanks to all the suggestion and advice. We have actually more or less confirmed the agenda as it is so, my apologies for the short detour. I must especially thank JoKi for his graciousness to help us and to accept what his offer has brought him. Very Happy

A very brief explanation of what I was trying to explain earlier. The USB interface, which we use the Type-A socket on our laptops uses 4 wires, only two of which are for data transfer. They are for data+ and data-. There is no clock signal in the standard. So it is asynchronous by definition. There are many different flavours of this, and there are also schemes I know of which tries to embed a clock signal into the signal itself. But the gist is the receiver must extract the signal from the signal itself, without the help of a dedicated clock signal to tell it when to sample the incoming signal. This is not the most efficient method.

The term 'data transmission' that I used was a bit confusing I agree. But the gist is explain that the USB interface is used for connecting peripheral equipment to a computer. This means things like a hard-disk and other USB type devices. The computer sees these as devices in its O/S. Again there are exceptions but it would be unproductive to always talk about the exceptions because I want to talk about the basic. In I/T terms -sometimes- we talk about master-slave type relationships here. This contrasts to the use of data-transmission for 'peer to peer' type systems. In a peer to peer type communication, one system transmits data in an accepted interface format to another for its further dedicated processing. The systems each other a connected system, the partner is not seen as a device and it cannot be seen as one of the devices in the computer (when you open the device manager in windows for e.g.). Agan this is the basics and there are exceptions but again I do not want to divert to the exceptions. There is no point.

A music server, like a CD Transport, a Bryston BDP-1, etc talking to a DAC is a peer to peer connection. The music server extracts the music signal from its storage format, RBCD, WAV files, etc and converts it to the accepted format, PCM usually in this case (again we have DSD but you get my point), and transmit it to the DAC. It do not have anything further to do with the signal. The DAC takes the PCM input and converts it to analog. This is peer to peer. The DAC is not directly controlled by the server like what how computer controls a USB attached harddisk (again, different from a NAS). So you can make a decision on how well the USB standard maps to a music server to DAC communication needs. It does not mean it is unuseable but it is not that perfect as it may be made out to be.

I shall have nothing more to say about this matter. There will be exceptions to many things in the I/T world. And of course those exceptions can make some of things above not entirely correct. Again, I do not want to focus on them, i.e. not on the trees in lieu of the forest.

I wonder if we should get participants to bring their own music instead of us totally supplying our music. I mean, most of my hi-res music are of chinese songs anyway so it is definitely not a universal match.
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by VS126 on Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:28 pm

If you guys reread back all my post, I never suggest any shootout.

I actually do not have time to go. It is actually not ethical to bring another brand to CMY or any other hifi shop to demo.

What I am trying to bring forth is that both format namely Bryston media player and Laptop to the Wadia 381i wld yield different resolution even though same high rez files are used.

Even if this is not a shootout, attendees wld feel that the laptop wld be so much inferior to the Bryston not knowing that the same files are played in different resolution. (see my previous post).

I hope you guys have a wonderful time and and I am sure with Jo Ki there, will learn alot.

And with our well learned moderator, sure you will all be in good hands.



Cheers
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by VS126 on Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:43 pm

Hi Jo,

Sorry did not read yr post before I posted mine.



I am perfectly happy here. Just want to tell all attendees the fine print.



Thanks for yr suggestion. Hope I did not offend you too much. Haha



Good luck & Cheers


Last edited by VS126 on Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by sflam on Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:51 pm

joki wrote:
Personally, I would term this to be the wise move of James Tanner from Bryston; I would not be prepared to accept USB input for HiRes music.. this mode of connection is simply not up to the task. Further, there is already AES/EBU 110ohm and SPiF input as they are much better input options comparatively....

i agree with u that the usb connection is not up to the task of streaming hi-res music only if u r talking abt usb 1.1 specs which limit it to max 24/96.

the new dacs r based on usb 2 specs which can handle 24/192 with no issues.

usb 3 has just been released and it's still new and there r some compatibility issues to be fixed.

the problem is this - lots of people have laptops/note books these days. all of them have usb slots. that's why the dac makers make dacs with usb.
those entering the world of computer-based music will have to use the usb unless they buy a media streamer/ digital music player.
so an understanding of the advancements in usb technology and how the limitations of usb 1.1 have been overcome is vital in an event on computer-based music such as the one being organised by hi fi 4 sale.

i feel that if even before the event is held, the opinion is that usb is not suitable for digital music, then it is counter-productive. how then to convince the young fellas with their ipods, mp3 players, smart phones and notebooks (with usb) to enter the audiophile world?


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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by mugenfoo on Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:05 pm

seriously ... some of us here are all getting hung up on this technology and that technology already.

Whatever happened to just enjoying and loving the music instead?
: Which is what as sflam correctly pointed out, crucial in getting the younger generation to better enjoy their music. Doesn't matter whether its mp3 or flac of wav and played via usb or optical or AES or the crevices of a rock.

C'mon guys.
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by elhefe on Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:43 pm

mugenfoo wrote:seriously ... some of us here are all getting hung up on this technology and that technology already.

Whatever happened to just enjoying and loving the music instead?
: Which is what as sflam correctly pointed out, crucial in getting the younger generation to better enjoy their music. Doesn't matter whether its mp3 or flac of wav and played via usb or optical or AES or the crevices of a rock.

C'mon guys.

Thats right. Forget all this digital technology. Lets go back to vinyl hehehehe...

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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by mugenfoo on Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:43 pm

elhefe wrote:
mugenfoo wrote:seriously ... some of us here are all getting hung up on this technology and that technology already.

Whatever happened to just enjoying and loving the music instead?
: Which is what as sflam correctly pointed out, crucial in getting the younger generation to better enjoy their music. Doesn't matter whether its mp3 or flac of wav and played via usb or optical or AES or the crevices of a rock.

C'mon guys.

Thats right. Forget all this digital technology. Lets go back to vinyl hehehehe...

No no no... In your case, Play cd & digital is best !!
No need to go looking for those Rock LPs !
Hahaha...
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by WongKN on Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:05 pm

Aiyah Elhefe, you are wasting time lar, go get that Goldmund Studio la !!
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by jokiarch on Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:09 pm

VS126 wrote:Hi Jo,

Sorry did not read yr post before I posted mine.

I am perfectly happy here. Just want to tell all attendees the fine print.

Thanks for yr suggestion. Hope I did not offend you in any way.

Good luck & Cheers
Hi VS126,

No apology needed, We are all trying to deal with CAS and the offerings are many. It is good that you pointed out alternative approach. It benefits many.
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by WongKN on Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:29 pm

VS126,

I am happy that you took my suggestions and have been gracious about it. We have thus moved forward a lot. So you are not free to attend and participate, too bad. In our future events perhaps you can participate as well and help us by talking about the current technology.

At the moment, we have firmed up the agenda of the event and it shall remain as it is, with the admin and JoKi both scheduled to talk. Again, as per originally explained, this is meant to be a laid-back information sharing event and meant for even the most ignorant layman to digital playback to pick up some of the fundamentals needed. When one is totally new, knowing about the basics is more important than knowing about the extremes of what is being done.
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by WongKN on Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:41 pm

Sflam,

I agree with what you have tried to say. Remember I myself pointed out that the notebook is often a fixture of many modern working person and so it makes a most convenient starting point. And almost all modern notebooks do not spot any other communications port than an ethernet port and some USB ports, almost always Type-A female (receptacle type) ports. Therefore, the USB port becomes the most convenient to use. As long as it is understood it's original design objective and its strengths and limitations.

This issue about the USB port was actually never in our original agenda. However because it was brought up so therefore it needs to be addressed. In the event proper, we really do not have any provision to go into details about its strengths and weaknesses, only that if one is to use a notebook as the music server, then one is almost certain to have to rely on the USB connection. In such a case, then it has to be accepted for what it is, and fine details are not important here, just that there are ways to use it to connect to various DACs with differing type of connectors.

With this, perhaps we will leave it as it is, certainly I will hope to leave this topic as it is and get on with discussions of the event proper.
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by VS126 on Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:33 am

WongKN wrote:VS126,

I am happy that you took my suggestions and have been gracious about it.

Sorry, I do not understand what you are trying to say...
Meanwhile, I believe everyone understand what I am trying to bring forth and I maintain it as it is.
Good luck in yr CAS adventure
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by VS126 on Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:41 am

jokiarch wrote:
VS126 wrote:Hi Jo,

Sorry did not read yr post before I posted mine.

I am perfectly happy here. Just want to tell all attendees the fine print.

Thanks for yr suggestion. Hope I did not offend you in any way.

Good luck & Cheers
Hi VS126,

No apology needed, We are all trying to deal with CAS and the offerings are many. It is good that you pointed out alternative approach. It benefits many.

Jo,
I think you misunderstood my post.

Anyway, Hope you guys have a good time next saturday,

Cheers
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by WongKN on Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:41 am

OK, it is not important, who understand who and what not. We will leave it as it is and concentrate on the event from now on.
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by WongKN on Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:43 am

Current count : 11 confirmed, 5 working on schedule, 3 unable to make it (I assume you are interested by cannot due to prior commitments). This is encouraging news to us.

Please also bring your own music if you have any you wish to experience, both CDs and/or hi-res wav/flac files, up to 24/96 format.
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by JediSavant on Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:12 pm

I just changed my attendance to 'no' as I am dashing off down south for a last minute trip tomorrow and won't be back till Saturday evening. Wish I could have made it...
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by WongKN on Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:36 pm

Unfortunate for us. But a trip down south can also mean you can make a side trip to SGP for some hifi-ing Very Happy It is the thought and the spirit of support that counts and I for one am grateful that you have given us your support for this event. Hopefully the next one would be better timing for you.
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by JediSavant on Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:03 pm

I'm going waaaay south.... so will definitely be hifi-ing...

In my absence, my comrade Elhefe will be peddling 4D DVDs... Very Happy Very Happy Evil or Very Mad
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by jokiarch on Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:38 pm

I have a last minute emergency site meeting from one of my job site tomorrow; so I will be running a bit late. But I will come in immediately once I am done. Please excuse me if I am late.

Apparently, CMY has kindly let me do my demo in the room instead of the shop front sales space; appreciate their efforts. But this also means that it will be a system I had not listened to... or tried... how exciting!
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by fizi on Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:49 pm

Any updates...? Very Happy
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by bassraptor on Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:50 am

Hear someone's buying lunch today? I'm in then ... Twisted Evil

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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by mugenfoo on Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:03 pm

somebody kena racun maximum but its got nothing to do with digital .....
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by elhefe on Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:38 pm

I am now at the hospital getting antibiotic for the racun. Apparently no cure for infidelity hahahahha...

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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by elhefe on Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:50 pm

On a serious note, the event was carried out in a very relaxing, friendly enjoyable atmosphere. Kudos and thanks to event organisers, presenters and host. I think everyone enjoyed the event. I know I did eventhough I came out analogue-ly poorer. Smile

I missed the first 1.5 hrs but i extended my stay till 715 pm.

The best part of the event was to meet up with forum member, shared a few laughs and last but not least, sharing knowledge of CAS. No rights, no wrongs. Just a bunch of people as 1Malaysia (JoKi's quote hehehe' enjoying music .... Be it high res, cd quality or mp3.


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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by WongKN on Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:06 pm

It was a good turnout today and bodes well for the future of h4s. I apologise for being mostly a loner today. The combination of four medicines turned me into a half zombie and I was actually half asleep most of the time. Thanks to those people who came over to say hi, and who chatted with me as it was the only things which kept me awake. I tried to stand up to refresh myself but found I was falling asleep literally on my feet !! Very Happy

Sflam turned up with a camera in hand and we hope he will be posting some photos of the event here later.

And elhefe, welcome to the dark side.....
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by Hi-Fi 4 Sale on Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:09 pm

We had an impromptu lucky draw, where 2 winners can select any one brand new CD from CMY Audio's CD collection.

In case some of you left early, no worries, both winners happened to be present. Congrats to both izamjazz & elhefe!

Aside from the sharing, the wonderful part was to meet members in person for the 1st time as well as to catch up with one another. Let's hope that you guys with common equipment & priorities get to catch up more often and bring more kaki into this hobby; eg. if there are 3 Maggie enthusiasts meeting up to share about each other's system and you introduce a newcomer who eventually gets into hi-fi after being exposed/poisoned to glorious Maggies, then needless to say, the hobby will grow. Very Happy

Also, many thanks to Jo Ki, the folks from CMY Audio (Andy, Michael & Ting?), our fellow moderators (Bassraptor & WongKN) and ardent members (you know who you are, lol) for making this fun.


Last edited by Hi-Fi 4 Sale on Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:20 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by fizi on Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:15 pm

Got lucky draw kaaaa.....gggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr jealous lol!
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by jokiarch on Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:26 am

Thank you HF4S for inviting me to share my journey (on digital music) with you. Apart from the last minute rush to attend an emergency site meeting, which upset my original plan to set up the system before the show starts, I enjoyed it immensely. The great helps from CMY, in pre-prepared the system for me, save the day. I arrived nearly 2pm! Thank you Michael, Andy and Ting for the system.

For those who did not manage to come to the event, I did a small demo on handling the external HDD; comparing various state of supports mean to handle its vibration & resonance. The disclaimer I made is this, whatsoever that I was showing, is not definitive and absolute, I offer in-exhaustive opportunities for everyone here to explore within your means!

The media player is my Bryston BDP-1, which do not stream from the HDD directly. And if I can show the floor that, by sheer adding cones, platform of wooden ply and glass, could change the sound below the HDD (remember that Bryston BDP-1 does not stream from it), how and by what reasoning that the digital binary codes of 0, 1 is affected by it? Exactly what ehefe said, the gist of the issue here is "change", for better or worst is not a subject of discussion I am trying to instill to the floor.

I provide no answer, but we should share our findings and grow as the technology is continuing to mature.

Jo Ki
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by zeebee on Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:32 am

fizi wrote:Got lucky draw kaaaa.....gggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr jealous lol!

Elhefe got a 'CD' antidote aka 'lucky draw' after consuming a big dose of 'black' vinyl magic... Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

Thanks, especially to hf4s and Jo Ki for an enlightening afternoon of CAS..

Cheers,

zb sunny
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by DrWho on Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:37 am

Congratulations to the Hifi4Sale team and Jo Ki for organizing the event with great success. For those lucky few who were in the room before the start of the event, witnessed Jo Ki skillfully setting up and tunning the system. That was another unofficial highlight of the event. Very Happy
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by fizi on Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:54 am

zeebee wrote:
fizi wrote:Got lucky draw kaaaa.....gggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr jealous lol!

Elhefe got a 'CD' antidote aka 'lucky draw' after consuming a big dose of 'black' vinyl magic... Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

Thanks, especially to hf4s and Jo Ki for an enlightening afternoon of CAS..

Cheers,

zb sunny


Usually black magic poisoned will slowly spread into the person....so to Mr Elhefe better get prepared lol!
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by carz on Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:57 am

Jo, you said "The media player is my Bryston BDP-1, which do not stream from the HDD directly"



Does that mean that the track is streamed to the BDP-1 and then buffered on the RAM before being processed ?



So changing the cones and platform under the HDD can still affect the sound huh ? what are the possible reasons for this ?



Could it be due to the jitter of the data extracted from HDD ?

The data then gets buffered onto the RAM with the accompaning jitter which is then streamed to the Juli@ sound card to be converted to SPDIF signal



So during your demo, the cones and platform under the BDP-1 remains constant. You only changed whatever is under the harddisk ?



Does it sound better if you played from a thumb drive than a HDD? What about with a SSD instead ?



What power supply did you use for the HDD ?

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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by carz on Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:59 am

Wong KN and all,

Can you give a detailed report for the benefit of those who could not attend ?

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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by Mikapoh on Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:10 pm

carz wrote:Wong KN and all,

Can you give a detailed report for the benefit of those who could not attend ?

+1. Document here.

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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by jokiarch on Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:00 pm

zeebee wrote:
fizi wrote:Got lucky draw kaaaa.....gggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr jealous lol!

Elhefe got a 'CD' antidote aka 'lucky draw' after consuming a big dose of 'black' vinyl magic... Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

Thanks, especially to hf4s and Jo Ki for an enlightening afternoon of CAS..

Cheers,

zb sunny
Hi Zeebee, it is good to see you again. Indeed Elhefe is lucky, and I am not sure the CD he won is going to be of value to him since he took the plunge to the 'dark side'... ?

The event is not just enlightening for you, it is enlightening for me also; I enjoyed the Part 1 put up by HF4S, hmm... Bitperfect eh? For US$5 upgrade on Apple is indeed value for money!

Of course I must also thank Mugenfoo for his thoughtfulness, the 100-PLUS is indeed much needed after long hours... Smile

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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by jokiarch on Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:20 pm

DrWho wrote:Congratulations to the Hifi4Sale team and Jo Ki for organizing the event with great success. For those lucky few who were in the room before the start of the event, witnessed Jo Ki skillfully setting up and tunning the system. That was another unofficial highlight of the event. Very Happy
Ha.ha... Laughing DrWho, I didn't know that you would value those time when I was repositioning the speakers before the show starts. I have 30 minutes, so I need to work very quickly while trying not to be overly critical. Firstly, I need the system to be revealing enough to shows up the effects, if there is any. Secondly, I want the system to cover bigger audience, and not just the sweet spot so that all of us could draw reliable verdict on the demo.

My highlight is to meet all of you. I hope I have the chance to hear you in the next HF4S event on CAS. I enjoyed listening to your system recently, I wish I have another, which is more personal listening session, so that i could enjoy it far longer than previous.

Jo Ki
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by jokiarch on Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:41 pm

carz wrote:Jo, you said "The media player is my Bryston BDP-1, which do not stream from the HDD directly"

Does that mean that the track is streamed to the BDP-1 and then buffered on the RAM before being processed ?

So changing the cones and platform under the HDD can still affect the sound huh ? what are the possible reasons for this ?

Could it be due to the jitter of the data extracted from HDD ?

The data then gets buffered onto the RAM with the accompaning jitter which is then streamed to the Juli@ sound card to be converted to SPDIF signal

So during your demo, the cones and platform under the BDP-1 remains constant. You only changed whatever is under the harddisk ?

Does it sound better if you played from a thumb drive than a HDD? What about with a SSD instead ?

What power supply did you use for the HDD ?
Hi Carz, my Bryston BDP-1 is is isolated, doubled in stacked mode of composite medium, which it remains constant through-out of the demo, so are the rest of the system except my HDD.

Exactly as what you are saying, the music data in the HDD is transferred to BDP-1 via Straightwire USB cable in 'blocks' and into the buffer inside BDP-1 where it is streamed. So by right, whatsoever that I am doing to the HDD, it should not bear no difference to digital music data. But in reality, it is not what we thought. Yes, perhaps it is the jitter, besides, what else could it be?

Good questions Carz, comparing powered HDD against my SSD, and I am quite sure it is due to the 5V current drawing through the USB cable has affected the data , the transmission jitter, making SSD not sounding as good as my dedicated HDD. The power supply is those cheap switch mode wall wart power supply. Not those audiophile or hospital graded ones.

Comparing thumbdrive with HDD, HDD sounded better in my system with the given parameters. However, I believe the SSD should be better is I could get one which I could isolate the power supply from BDP-1.

Jo Ki
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by bassraptor on Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:43 pm

Great job in organising this ... we shud have more ... next topic ... "The RIAA Curve: Sultry, Svelte or Voluptuous?" I propose sflam as the chief penetrat ... oop, perpetrat ..sorry, purveyor.

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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by Wikin on Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:40 pm

bassraptor wrote:Great job in organising this ... we shud have more ... next topic ... "The RIAA Curve: Sultry, Svelte or Voluptuous?" I propose sflam as the chief penetrat ... oop, perpetrat ..sorry, purveyor.


Hi,
Before we jump the gun, could some kind soul summarize the gathering over the weekend for poor people like me who can't make it? Much appreciated....

cheers
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by elhefe on Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:00 pm

My share of the day.



I arrived CMY only at 345 pm.



HF4S was presenting on basic CAS using Mac Mini. DAC used was Brik Audio via USB from MacMini.



He was also using a RM15 App from iTunes called BitPerfect.



A comparison was done with Wadia CD player/DAC input.



The difference in sound quality of course is huge but weigh the difference you hear with cost - between an RM20,000 CD player with roughly RM3,500 Mac Mini + BRIK DAC, which one would you go for?



To answer this question, there is an old Malay proverb - Tepuk dada, tanya selera (tap your chest and ask your desire), but in this case is Tepuk dada, tanya poket (tap your chest, ask your pocket) hehehehe.



After that, Jo Ki took over to demonstrate the effects of positioning and isolation with different materials of HDD. It was a big group, so the first half went into the demo room first. ABout 4 to 445 pm.



I opted to go in the 2nd session as I just arrived. So mingled with mugenfoo, HF4S, WongKN, Zeebe, dnabira and a few others. Ting from CMY remebered me from my purchase in Sg. Wang, so he handed me a mineral water hehehehe. Thanks Ting.



I demoed ClearAudio Concept again while waiting for the 2nd session.



As the 2nd session started with Jo Ki, we went in and he delievered what exactly he wanted to share with us. Before that, everyone else was sooooooo shy to take the one and only chair in the demo room. So, I braved myself and sat on the chair and enjoyed relaxing till 530 pm while Jo Ki put on lots and lots of songs while the others were standing up (I bet you guys regretted for not taking the chair first hehehehe).



ALthough it started of with repetition of The Carpenters over the various isolation materials Jo Ki was using, the last 15 mins of the session, JO Ki put on various type of songs inclusing Metallica !!!!



Jo Ki was showing the effects of the following:



1. placing HDD flat on 'wrong side' as defined by IT experts VS the 'correct side'. SQ was actually better when HDD was on the wrong side. IT gurus will shoot me for this. Although they got to Jo ki first via emails from around the world.



2. Placing the HDD on the floor (or any generic box), wooden plywood base and glass base.



3. For isolation cones, 3 types were used which I totally did not take notes nor jot it in my memory of the brands (there is a reason for this) but I know:



- one was made from the same hard material on the nose tip of the a space shuttle

- one was made from a soft silicone material with ball bearings inside

- I forgot what was the last one



4. The isolation cones were alternated underneath the 2 bases wooden and glass and also underneath the HDD itself.



So, what did I learn?



1. For digital kit like CDP, HDD, DAC - a soft material provides a more luscious sound like the silicone above



2. For solid kit like amps and pre amps - a hard material provides more control in the music



To my ears, the best combination was when Jo Ki used the wood and the silicone cones. I am quite sure I dozed off at one point listening to music.



What Did I Share?



1. A fair amount of money purchasing analogue items

2. Small amount of money to mugenfoo for GNR LP

3. My friendship

4. My 'Infidelity' joke



What Did I Get?



1. 1 free CD of my choice for winning the lucky draw

2. 1 GNR LP

3. A hole in my pocket

4. Free mineral water. I think I drank 4 bottles hehehehe



Overall, there was no technical mumbo jumbo in this event. It was sheer pleasure of listening to music and very light suggestions here and there for you to extract the most from your system.



NOTE: Why I do not like to capture the brands of things when I demo? So that I dont get put off/convinced of its effect due to branding and price.



3 more hours to delivery to the dark side.



Over and out.



NOTE: Jo Ki, please feel free to correct any of my report above.

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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by zeebee on Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:51 pm

Elhefe,

That's why we let u sit down so you can write something sensible about this CAS thingy and us 'Unkers' stand there in pain rather than post here with no sense Very Happy Very Happy

Anyway, as Sifu Jo Ki saying something like "CAS is just beginning', so I'm taking a break of sorts from digititis as Mugen graciously 'tuned' my P7 when I bump into him at CMY. m now savoring a couple of spinning black poisons via Mrs Elvis Costello aka Ms Krall.. Btw apologies to fellow MUGS as I got back from Seremban quite late yesterday and missed the 1.7 session.. Bassraptor n Nizamjazz... So sorry Embarassed


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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by Hi-Fi 4 Sale on Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:46 pm

DrWho wrote:Congratulations to the Hifi4Sale team and Jo Ki for organizing the event with great success. For those lucky few who were in the room before the start of the event, witnessed Jo Ki skillfully setting up and tuning the system. That was another unofficial highlight of the event. Very Happy

DrWho,

With due deference, you may be giving us too much credit, but then again, who are we to refuse it? Razz

On a more serious note, this is just the starting point. Part of the 'success' in the event is not what we demonstrated, rather it is the people who have turned up, such as you and your group of friends, plus many more H4S members, who are actually ahead of us in the hi-fi learning curve and yet willing to support us in our endeavours.

Our hope is that this event itself will spawn a series of other events, such as CAS Part II, System Tuning I, II, III etc., special casual listening sessions and so on. The plan is that if we can discover, get to know and convince more Jo Kis, DrWhos, bassraptors, mugenfoos, WongKNs & elhefes to do demos in specific areas that will help improve the standard of hi-fi in Malaysia or bring more people into the hobby by making it fun, interesting & social, then we're on to something beyond what we can normally expect.

Perhaps we should plan another topic, in another venue, with a different set of presenters in Nov/Dec?
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by Wikin on Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:39 pm

Thanks Elhefe ! Much appreciated for the writeup.
One of these days I gotta meet you bunch of feverish ppl...

cheers.
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by Hi-Fi 4 Sale on Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:12 pm

For the benefit of those who could not make it, the agenda was as follows:

  • Overview of CAS
  • Key consideration factors in building a 'nice' CAS
  • Demonstration approaches for Demo #1 & Demo #2
  • Any other business (chit-chat, CD lucky draw sponsored by H4S)

We had 2 demos, of which Demo 2 has been well-described in the last few posts.

Demo 1: Basic CAS, 80% of the performance for 20% of the effort. The objective is not to overdo things, but to help get people started on a simple, good-sounding CAS in the fastest possible way.

4 scenarios were conducted, in which attendees were asked to give their opinions on what they heard and the differences between scenarios.
Hardware was a Mac Mini 2010, mostly stock, except that it has 8GB RAM (up from the standard 2GB) and the internal 320GB HDD was replaced with a 640GB one. Boot Camp was installed, running either Windows 7 or Mac OSX 10.6 Snow Leopard in dual-boot configuration with a shared iTunes library stored on NTFS.
No additional audio-specific investment was made, save for a USD5 purchase of BitPerfect software for use in Mac OSX & iTunes, just to show that making your home PC do double duty doesn't cost you a lot more. OK, maybe I cheated a little.....by using a RM450 Kimber B BUS Ag USB cable. Very Happy

All songs were extracted using iTunes on Windows, in AIFF format. The main reason for choosing iTunes was ease of library management and iPad/iPhone remote integration.

The hi-fi hardware was held constant:

  • Amp: PrimaLuna DiaLogue One integrated
  • Speakers: ProAc D38R
  • Cabling: Siltech interconnects & speaker cables
  • DACs: Interchanged between the Brik Audio & Wadia 381i, both via USB inputs only

Scenario 1: iTunes on Windows 7, through the USB input of the Wadia 381i
We played 2 tracks, then proceeded to...

Scenario 2: The Mac Mini was rebooted in Mac OSX mode. The same tracks were played as in Scenario 1, but this time via iTunes Mac OSX. Note that the exact same files were played, since the iTunes library is on an NTFS partition, accessible to both Windows 7 & Mac OSX.
Attendees were asked to compare what they heard in Scenarios 1 & 2.

Scenario 3: Again using iTunes on Mac OSX, we played 2 tracks, interchanging between DACs (Brik Audio & Wadia 381i USB sections) on the fly, since Mac OSX allows it. This is to ascertain 2 things:
1) Is our basic CAS up to the mark, when the DAC is upgraded, in producing discernible sound quality improvements?
2) Moving downwards from a RM20k+ Wadia 381i player/DAC to a >95% cheaper, RM820 Brik Audio DAC, despite an absolute reduction in sound quality, is it any less fun and more importantly, are we still able to enjoy the music?

Scenario 4: Back to the Wadia 381i USB input via Mac OSX iTunes, we play another track, followed by restarting iTunes with another USD5 (RM15) software upgrade - BitPerfect from the App Store (link) and replaying the same track. Again, listeners were asked to share their opinions and preferences.

Scenario 5: Since the Wadia 381i is a top-contending CD player in its own right, what better way to give listeners a baseline of our basic CAS to the same track played through the CD from which the track was ripped. Caveats here include the fact that the Wadia 381i's engineering was more focused on the internal Stream Unlimited transport than on the USB input. However, the objective was not to prove the superiority of USB or otherwise, but to demonstrate that differences do exist and what we can possibly tradeoff when going the CAS route.

We then proceeded to Demo #2, which due to the smallish listening room (offering much better acoustics though), was done in 2 groups.

Our apologies for not announcing the lucky draw earlier. It suddenly came to my mind that we could do it impromptu, thanks to the top banner ad money from CMY Audio... cheers

OK OK OK, we try to make it a point to spice things up a little by sponsoring lucky draw items for the next few meetings.
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by Hi-Fi 4 Sale on Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:32 pm

fizi wrote:Got lucky draw kaaaa.....gggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr jealous lol!

Fizi,
Actually, I owe you something from the KLIAV Show. Since you are in Ipoh, lemme make some arrangements for you to collect it from Dong Fong Audio @ Fairpark.
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Re: Announcement: Hi-Fi 4 Sale event - 2pm-6pm Saturday 17 September 2011, CMY Audio, Sunway Giza Mall, Kota Damansara

Post by carz on Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:39 pm

admin,

Thanks for the detailed report. what was the general consensus in sound quality between the various scenarios ?



And was Analog TT better than CAS ?

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