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Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

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Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:07 pm

bal wrote:This is very interesting!!

STC, hope you don't mind sharing what is ambiophonics, and how do you set up speakers in a room using this method? I am very intrigued but very blur..... i have a pair of planar speakers, wonder if this method will work for speakers that produce sound front and back unlike a boxed speaker that only produces sound to the front mainly. many thanks my friend -in-our-forum.

Bal. Smile
 
 
Hi Bal,
 
I started a new thread as I do not want to be seen hijacking the OP thread.
 
Yes, planars or Electrostats can be used with Ambio. It works with any speakers and the quality of the speakers are secondary compared to stereo. If you want a real big soundstage as recorded by the microphone and do not mind seeing the speakers moved as close as possible within 20 or 30 degrees then Ambio is the answer.
 
I am aware of Ambio about 10 years ago and used a physical barrier to cancel the crosstalk without much success. Initially with the DSP of PC did not give me an ideal sound that I wanted. I eventually dropped the idea because I was reluctant to move the speakers closers.
 
Currently, my speakers are only 54cm apart! The initial setup may require a lot of tweaking with the delay and attenuation but just like stereo where you move your speakers all over the place until you get it right –you need to be patient. You can read more from ambiophonics.org


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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by Wikin on Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:43 pm

Very interesting read STC. Is it possible to share a picture of your setup? I'm really intrigued by your statement that the speakers are only 54 cm apart.

So am I right to say that the DSP processor goes between the CDplayer and the amplifier much like a DAC?

cheers.
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Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:56 pm

Hi Wikin,  just two super 5 placed together. I couldn't post the pix using IPad. Will do my best later.

My original setup was all the way from the laptop to pre. Now it is connected after the preamp. I can listen to my cd player or iTunes or iPod with Ambiophonics with this connection. I have not experimented at different location yet.


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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:16 pm

See below


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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by bal on Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:34 pm

STC, how's the resolution of the Ambio? Is there any loss of transparency, does it induce any unwanted sonic signature, and the addition of another set of interconnects, does that interfere with the reproduction of music? I am keen to buy a unit, it's listed at USD125 i think which is not too steep, but i'm worried about more and more things being added on in the music signal chain.

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Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:54 pm

Bal, I am not sure how to answer this. Everything will be different. I am still comparing with my SACDs. If you want full resolution of DSD then pls try it with VST plug-in using Foobar or Audacity. What I noticed was those CDs which I never liked to listen before sounded musical to me now. Manger was excellent example but one SACD that I tried yesterday did not sound any different from the stereo.

The MiniAmbio is not the magic bullet because you still need to familiarize with the setting and adjust it to your liking. Many write off Ambio because the first impression which usually not heard in the sweet spot or just because they assume the stereo sound to be correct.

I wanted to ask the number one fan of Ambio about the resolution but the guy is using a 20 odd channels system with each speaker pairs cost about US28000, happily running through the Dell laptop and it would be my poor judgment of inquisitiveness to assume he overlooked the loss of resolution when he moved to Ambio.


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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:27 pm

Bal, received your PM but you are not allowing PMs to you. Please check email from me.
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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by elhefe on Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:01 pm

I like to see a very healthy hobby discussion like this. Two thumbs to both of you Bal and STC.

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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by Wikin on Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:07 pm

Thanks for posting the pic.
That's surely something different from the norm where players with a dedicated audio room will spread the speakers much further apart.

So are you getting a better stereophonic imaging with a wide spread sound stage with good depth using the DSP?

BTW is this the way you're connecting it?

Laptop -> DAC -> DSP -> Amp -> Spk

cheers.
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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:46 pm

elhefe wrote:I like to see a very healthy hobby discussion like this. Two thumbs to both of you Bal and STC.

Thank you for your encouragement, Mod.

Wikin, I am getting full soundstage that wasn't heard in some recordings. For some recording the difference is not that much.

A good stereo recording gives full 180 degrees soundstage but most pop recordings which were recorded in mono individually and mixed the soundstage is as good as what you get with 60 degrees speakers apart like in good stereo.

My interest is the clarity and separation which is better than stereo soundstage is just a by-product of the benefits of Ambiophonics.

Try it my friend. You are still using your laptop to play music? But you will have tough time moving those big speakers. Smile

p.s. CD player > PreAmp> MiniAmbio > Amp

Or iPod or laptop to DAC > Preamp > MiniAmbio > amp

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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by Wikin on Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:37 am

STC wrote:

p.s. CD player > PreAmp> MiniAmbio > Amp

Or iPod or laptop to DAC > Preamp > MiniAmbio > amp


Oops this will be a problem for me as I'm using a 3 way active crossover which means I will need to use 3 units of ambio Shocked

cheers.
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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:58 am

My apologies. You are in better position to implement Ambio than myself. You can download the ambiophonics players to the laptop and use the following connection.

Laptop with Ambiosoftware to rest of the equipment. You don't need the miniAmbio. Download Ambio Audio Player same as Itunes or Window media Player and you get the full benefits of Ambio.



Download
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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by tlkoo on Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:14 am

Many thanks to STC for the warm hospitality, it was truly an evening which had me intimately embraced by virtue of the achievements of his Ambiophonics!

I couldn't visualise the abilities of such setup with speakers apart for <2feet but true enough, I have been convinced of being transported directly to the music venue be it studio recording or live.

In very a quick manner, I may humbly opine that my stereophonics (as I have barely achieved) could churn out/reproduce imaging, soundstaging and even soundscape extension into listening room to mislead me to feel that I have been transported to the music venue while ambiophonics goes straight to have directly sent me to the music venue!!!


Being last night a joyous session with few long known friends (no one is old though long known), it wasn't conducive for knowing more about ambiophonics let alone music appreciation. Mr STC, I will knock at your doorstep again and I assume the invitation without any right of refusal huh!







Cheers

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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:50 pm

Dear Koo,

Thank you for the kind words. I couldn't have said it better myself to describe the ability of Ambiophonics method to bring the best of stereophonic recordings.

Your system is impressive as well. It has been a pleasure to listen to a simple setup that was pleasing to listen to. Your 40 years old system is a living testament that stereo has not changed  much over the years. You impressed upon me of your hearing acuity that I can only dream of ever learning or mimicking. It is not the price of the equipment that determines how good is your sound. Room integration is very crucial and I am glad we both share the same thinking.

 Perhaps, one of these days I could borrow you to redo my room with your minimalist approach as I have over damped the room with a wrong approach that was taken at the initial stage. You have now the explanation as to why the wine bottles and an aluminum stripes now littered all over the room. They brought back the reverberation to the room.

Back to Ambiophonics, how do you determine the correct soundstage? If you put your speakers 5 feet apart then it is is going to be 5 feet. If it is 10 feet apart then 10 feet it is. You may get the soundstage extended from wall to wall with either of this setting but how do we arrive to a right conclusion?

If you look at most recording studios where the mixing is made, speakers are hardly more than 5 or 6 feet apart. That is the soundstage that they are hearing and reproduced to us. A guitar's sound stand stage is just about 1 meter but with stereo you can hear the strumming on your left speaker and the frets fingering movements on you right speaker. And if your speakers are 6 feet apart then you are actually hearing  a 6 foot guitar in stereo. That cannot be correct. Ambiophonics gives you the correct perspective of the recording venue and the soundstage. That's what you heard  last night.

Last night setting was for perfect recordings. Good recordings such as Decca or DMP benefits a lot with realistic soundstage.  Most audiophile recordings benefits from Ambiophonics. You can have difference settings to compensate for pseudo stereo recordings such as Tracy Chapman otherwise you will hear the obvious flaws such as 40 foot piano. Ambiophonics is about the actual recorded information that was captured. The flaws will be obvious.

Thank you once again for your honest opinion. I am glad that you liked it at first listening. You had good recordings. Usually, most would compare with some mediocre recordings and dismiss Ambiophonics as a headphone sound. Oh...that actually happened last night. Smile


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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by Wikin on Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:56 pm

Congrats to both members for sharing their 'syok' moments together. I surely hope the floor is not stained? Laughing

STC,
I would surely download the freeware to try out soon. Thanks for sharing your findings. But I'm sure this idea will not be amongst the audio purist.

cheers.
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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:11 am

Wikin wrote:.......
I would surely download the freeware to try out soon. Thanks for sharing your findings. But I'm sure this idea will not be amongst the audio purist......

Well, I had my protection on and I think he was on his pills. Wink

I have to agree with you that audio purist may be reluctant to even try out Ambio. It is a step which would make all our years of hard-work, tweaking and upgrading becoming redundant. Unlike Stereo the upgrade is day and night but it also makes equipment comparison much easier.

Please try these tracks with your laptop or PC. If you are happy and want to discover then you can proceed to burn the tracks to CD. No software is required to play these tracks -just speakers placements will do.

Normal - Stereo (place you PC or laptop speakers around 60 degree like you do normal hearing. You can reduce the volume by 3dB to match the Ambio. Stereo appears to be louder because two channels are outputting the same signal.)
http://www.ambiophonics.org/Demos/Stereo/Unprocessed/9%20Festivities.wav


Ambio - Ambiophonics (place you speaker about 25 to 30 degrees off all sound enhancement, such as SRS in the soundcard. Please increase the volume slightly, about 3dB, to compensate for loss of doubling effect of loudness that you perceive in Stereo). In this track you can hear the trailing drums to your far left which is not heard in the stereo.
http://www.ambiophonics.org/Demos/Stereo/RACE_cancelled/Festivities.wav



Alternatively, you can burn a Ambio processed CD and place your speakers closer to form about 25 degree angle and compare with normal stereo CD.

Ambio CD

Stereo CD.

You can also go here for individual tracks.http://www.ambiophonics.org/Demos.html
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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by bal on Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:09 pm

I'm very grateful to you, STC, for providing such wonderful links. I have downloaded both cd's and am eagerly awaiting tomorrow morning to try with my home set up.
Would have loved to join you guys on that magical night out, but providence had other plans for me, so at the last moment, a one sixth degree turn of my personal universe meant i could not gun my car in the direction of Bukit Antarabangsa. Next time perhaps i will be more fortunate.
Bal.

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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:48 pm

You are welcome, Bal. you may experience some difference in the beginning in the texture of the sound. That is exactly the same texture you will hear if you play with one speaker.


Please SMS me if you need help.

Cheers!
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Ambiophonics listening of KLIAV Commerative CD

Post by STC on Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:16 pm


Below is the description in the CD inlay of track 1 :-

Salve Splendor - Canty, Carmina Celtic.

This is a superiorly recorded short medieval polyphonics music that can influence the mood of listeners instantaneously. Though the choral is weighted  on the left, it is amazingly well captured natural atmospheric ambiance spread well into the right and conjures an enveloping , seamless 3D volumetric ambient space! On close auditioning, one could perceive a slightly longer reverberation that lingers along the central acoustic spiral form, revealing perhaps the acoustic space of the recording venue. Do check this out on the web on the recording venue. This track is excellent for testing of ambient micro-dynamics details reproduction as well as soundstaging of audio system
.



Ambiophonics description differs slightly due to better separation and soundstage. Described as below:-

 The track starts with voices from right and evenly spread between left and and right. With occasional " ss" in the centre. At about the 12th second " Si Si " at dead centre. Through out the 1 minute recording choral is well balanced between left and right. What appears to be weighted towards left around 34 to 40 seconds is the rather louder left singers with deeper voice but still the whole image is well spread between left and right evenly. And what was described as trailing reverbs in the CD inlay actually could be the voices of the younger members of Canty standing on the right who were always trailing the right singers. The reverberation is equally loud and I wonder if there was some synthesized reverb involved.

Unlike stereo, you can turn you head to concentrate on each direction without losing the centre image.
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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:12 pm

Further analyzing of Salve Splendor and Ambiophonics playback revealed that the recording could not have been a true live stereo recording. It could be with a main left channel and another mic towards the right.

The album cover artwork was not the actual church where the recording was made. Probably the real church where Linn recorded this Cd was not so much to look at in comparison to the CD artwork. It was quite misleading.

I did compare the sound of true live analogue recording of Tabula Rasa which was recorded at a church of a similar size and shape as  where Salve splendor was recorded. In Tabula Rasa Geocentric the echo is clearly audible but Salve was very clean with nice reverb which is only possible with processing. 

It is in no way a criticism of a splendid recording of Linn but just to share and discuss the difference in stereo and Ambiophonics which is far more capable in revealing more information in a recording even with inferior equipments like mine.


Royaumont The CD cover image.






Christ the King Chapel where Tabula Rasa was recorded.  





This is the church where Salve was recorded.






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Ambiophonics -listening to Sheffield/XLO Test CD

Post by STC on Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:13 pm

As I continue to explore ambiophonics, I decided to use track 3 - Walkaround of the Sheffield Test CD to test for spatial representation. The track is said to reveal our system's resolution and clarity. It performed far exceeding better than the stereo setup revealing the space and location of Doug and Roger.

Unfortunately, when Doug Sax said that he was in the centre of the room, in Ambiophonics setup it was actually weighted towards the left. After shifting my head and chair to get the centre image I just couldn't get it dead centre.

Then I proceeded to listen with my headphone and it sounded like he was in the centre but I still thought he was still learning towards the centre. I have used this CD many time to test and never had this problem.

Finally, I decided to analyze the tracks using Audio analyzer and to my surprise it was indeed weighted towards the left even when Doug Sax claimed otherwise!
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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by Kong Seng Chee on Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:55 pm

Hi-fi is fun. Why else are we in it?

After hearing how Mr. Koo enthused over Mr. Chelvam's set-up, I decided to check it out. Ambiophonic did deliver a convincing portrayal of musical reality. This is not to be confused with live music but it certainly can thrill.

Impressive. I don't know whether you'll ever get used to it. You not only will amaze yourself, but will be musically rewarded.

The ambiophonic player is in public domain. My suggestion is simply to audition it. Now I can relate to Koo's enthusiastic endorsement. Let me not forget to thank Mr. Chelvam also.

Ambiophonic is fun. Aren't we supposed to have fun?


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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:51 pm

Thank you, Mr. Kong.  I am just sharing what seemed to me to be a better musical experience and glad you liked it.

Ambiophonics is going to be as much different as you hear the sound over the headphones for the first time but it doesn't sound anything like a headphone.  The headphones sound is actually located inside your head but as we get used to it we are unconscious about it.  Try a little experiment with a child who is just learning to speak and ask where the sound is coming from and they would point to their head.

The real way to enjoy ambio is to divide the room into two parts so that the sound from left  and right speakers does not reach the other ear. No DSP or anything. Just place the speakers close and listen.  I started with two queen size mattresses among others but wasn't quite successful.  Now the softwares or MiniAmbios have replaced the mattresses or the rockwool.

It was a bit difficult to accept ambio in the beginning. In some pop recordings ( pseudo stereo) the sound comes from unexpected place. As you get used to it you forget about the ambiance but enjoys the music for its clarity. Now, when you move back to stereo you will suddenly hear the collapse of soundstage and overcrowding of instruments

It is actually close to live music if the source is the same. Classical live recordings are good test recording for Ambio.
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Pure Stereo

Post by STC on Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:29 pm

Edgar Choueiri, a professor of mechanical and aerospace engineering at Princeton University, has developed a more sophisticated method to create a true 3D sound using stereo playback.

His method employs exactly the same principle as Ambiophonics but using BACCH filter which is far more complicated than the  RACE filter that Ambiophonics uses.  Read here for more. http://www.ambiophonics.org/papers/PureStereo_vs_Ambiophonics.html

Prof. Choeiri's video here illustrates Pure Stereo. Watch 4.25 onwards to get a glimpse of what to expect with Ambiophonics. As you can see the listener could identify the exact location of each speakers. In normal stereo system, different listeners will point to a different location. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQmQD27uCt0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:06 pm

Had an interesting discussion with a friend of mine who came over to experience ambio. It was a mixed feeling for him. He couldn't recognise some of the tracks in a CD that was very familiar to him but was very impressed nevertheless.
 
However, he wasnt too impressed being enveloped with instruments at 120 degrees. For him the music should be away from him like watching through a window. Some loathe 3D movies precisely for the same reason. Could this be one of many reasons why Multichannel SACD failed?


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What should be the correct soundstage width?

Post by STC on Mon May 13, 2013 9:06 pm

Most speakers placement articles suggest a placement of 60 degrees. It is also not uncommon to see setup extending to 100 or 120 degrees.

Reflecting on my personal experience, in my room, the best position wasn't the 60 degrees as suggested by Cardas but probably around 40 degrees. This was before the implementation of Ambio. 

Recently, while watching Wiener Philharmoniker BEETHOVEN 9 Symphonies over Astro, I figured the angle from the best seats in the centre could only be around 30 or 40 degrees for the whole stage on a full orchestra performance. A quick check about the hall revealed that best sounding place are the balconies two or three rows near the stage. That's where the right mix of reflection from the ceiling and direct sound integrates at best.

In such situation the sound stage can never be anywhere close to 60 degree for best audio experience. More so, if you are seated in the balcony.  The other thing in live shows is that we don't really fix our head in the centre of the stage but turn our heads towards the dominant performer. In that case, the head is facing directly towards the performers.  Again sound is coming directly to our face at zero degree.

Basically, we are more inclined to listen in mono like sound coming straight to our face rather than the stereo illusion which supposedly recreate the sound stage. The two experience are entirely different. We hardly turn our head towards the left or right speakers to pay more attention to the lead instrument but rather fixed our head to the centre of the two speakers at all time irrespective where the lead instruments plays. 

Naturally, if you turn your head away from the source, the sound texture will be different as compared to listening directly facing the source.

Just a thought. Thanks.
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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by syadi on Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:24 pm

Hi

I had a listen to STC's ambiophonics recently. Have to say that it was very, very impressive. The soundstage, the depht were amazing. Need to learn more on this. Would recommend it to everyone to experience. Salute you STC!

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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:41 pm

Thank you for your kind words, Syadi. As you can see, the soundstage and depth was the actual space of the recordings. 

I must admit the learning curve is quiet steep. The exact speakers separation and listeners position is matter of trial and error. 

Please keep in touch if you need to learn more about ambio.

Warm regards.
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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:32 am

The Youtube below gives you an overall difference between normal Stereo and Ambiophonics.

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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by 77006688 on Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:39 am

Hi STC,

Good morning. Is ambiophonics is speaker placement method or a audio device. I saw the thread above, Bal is asking for the device of ambiophonics and you mentioned about speaker placement. or ambiophonics is the combination of its device + speaker placement? Sorry, a question from a novice here who is keen to learn.

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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:00 am

Hi,

It is actually speakers placement plus a physical divider between the left and right speaker. Since having a a divider like that coming right up to your face is not practical, the RACE algorithm replaces the need for the barrier.

You can download the RACE algorithm to your laptop, iphone, iphone or android device or use a simple device 4 x 4 inch between your preamp and amp so that you need not go thru laptop or other devices.

The idea is to prevent the sound from the opposite speaker reaching your ear. Hope that helps.
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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:06 pm

Here are a few simple animations,  courtesy of Univ of Southampton (ISVR) , of the the sound waves that hit us from a single source.
 
 
This is how the waves in a reflection free room travel before reaching us.
 

Diagram 1
 
 
The same source is now being reproduced in stereo. Note how the competing waves are distorted compared to the real sound.
 

Diagram 2
 
In ambiophonics setup with RACE technology we are able to reproduce the sound exactly as how the live sound would reach our ears.
 
 
 

Diagram 3
 
As you can see the waves reproduced in stereo ( diagram 3) is very much similar to the original sound (diagram 1).
 
Regards.


Last edited by STC on Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:59 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by elhefe on Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:46 am

STC,

What are the red and white dots represent?

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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:17 am

Hi Elhefe,

The red dots represent sound source. In diagram 1, it can be taken as a mono sound like what we hear in the nature. Maybe a vocal or saxophone, etc...etc.

In D2 and D3, the red dots are speakers reproducing the sound in stereo. It a rather a simple animation dealing with a single source. it get more complex with multiple source and reflection & reverberation.

Cheers!

p.s.  Thank you for the thumbs up in the other thread.
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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by elhefe on Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:29 am

Thats what I thought....but having the white dot there in Diagram 2 made me wonder...

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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:33 am

Sorry for missing to explain the white dot. It was added to mark animation without crosstalk cancellation.

Smile
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Panambiophonics

Post by STC on Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:46 am

As I was pondering how to move forward to graduate to the higher and proper setup of Ambiophonics using 2 rear speakers, Mr. Glasgal of Ambiophornics.org suggested to experiment with a new way to setup the rear speakers at a distance around 20% of the front speakers distance to the listener’s. It was a recent discovery of new phenomenon known as Slep effect which Mr.Glasgal invited to experiment and provide feedback.
 
 
The best way to experience Ambiophonics is with two front speakers and two rear speakers. This is known as Panambiophonics giving you a full 360® surround sound from the ordinary stereo recordings. Alas , it is a rarity to see rooms with such length to accommodate rear speakers at the recommended distance so the chance of 1/5 distance is godsend to many with small rooms.
 
 
 
It was not an easy task as the only way I can achieve this is to mount the rear speakers to the wall elevated high up above my head. The other problem is to find a way to tilt the speakers forward by more than 45® towards my chair. None of the wall mounts met my requirement. For now, I use small 17 year old bookshelf speakers and hanging precariously by a tiny wire screwed to the back of the speakers. I still need better speakers and a way to securely attach them to the wall without screwing the back of the speakers ( wait a minute! that sounds vulgar! I don’t mean that).
 
 
The rear speakers are connected to a Marantz amplifier and the main speakers are connected to my old faithful Classe Amp. Muting and unmuting the Marantz allowed me to do realiable AB tests to see the real influence of Panambiophonics. 
 
 
And in conclusion, it was a rediscovery of a whole new experience. The integration with various instruments is smooth and musical. The difference is like moving forward from stereo to ambiophonics. You still won’t get to hear sound from the rear speakers but it adds to the ambiance. Vocals sound so natural and drums resonance is clearly heard.


Last edited by STC on Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:39 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:20 am

The newer edition of Tsai-Yi Wu video is here. Please disable all sound enhancer in the soundcard when watching this video to have the fullest impact.


The distance need not be precisely 20 degrees.



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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by lhgin on Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:03 pm

Hi guys,

Such interesting findings.

Did anyone in Penang try that?

Hi STC,

What I need to do is just download the freeware and play ripped music via that freeware? My setup is PC (Foobar) -> USB/SPDIF converter -> DAC -> Amp.

I'm currently using Foobar as transport. Does it mean that I don't need Foobar as transport anymore?

Also, I need to move my speakers 2ft apart instead of the usual 6ft distance?

Sorry for the newbie questions. Still figuring out how to implement Ambiophonics...

Smile

Br,
Ken

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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:22 pm


Hi Ken,

Foobar is fine and probably better than the hardware I am using in terms of resolution. In Foobar, you should able to play DSD at its full resolution but you need a very fast processor.

If you do not want to buy the hardware, you should find the VST plugin for ambio in the Foobar website. After installing it, you are done. Just play the music and Foobar will do the rest.

The speakers distance is relative to your sitting distance and taste. It should be around 20 to 30 degrees. Mine is about 24 degrees.

VST plugins also available at Hotto .  I would advice you to use the audio player and experiment with good stereo recordings in WAV. Once you are ready then you move on. It can be a slow process in the beginning but can be quickly mastered. Only two setting that matters.

I would still recommend the Miniambio which I use with Mytek DSD DAC and SACD player. Many will give up because the initial stage of setting requires a lot of patience. Please feel free to ask if you need help. If you experience being surrounded by musician when listening to Lindberg DSD recording - don't worry - that's how it was recorded. That's the picture you see above.


Regards,
ST
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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by lhgin on Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:18 pm

Hi ST,

What do you mean by 20-30 degrees? The toe in of the speakers?

I'll try the Foobar plugin 1st and see if I like it. Then only to consider moving further ahead.

Thanks for your advice!

Ken

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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:42 pm

Hi Ken, 

20 to 30 degrees is the angle seen from your sitting position. Usually, in stereo, it would be around 60degrees. That is the recommended angle by Dolby after research. So assuming, you are sitting about 6 feet from your speaker then you need to move the speakers about 1/3 of 6 feet. 

If you let me know the actual distance of your speakers and sitting position then I would able to give you the correct distance.

Before you download the plugin, view the the video with closer speaker position. You do not need to download anything as the video already prised the sound for Ambiophonics playback. It is easier with laptop as you can move your head further to form the 20 degree.

Cheers.
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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by lhgin on Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:35 pm

Hi STC,

With the video you mentioned, I just listen to it with my system or my headset? 

Since ambiophonics is about separating both channel instead of letting them interfere with each other, is it the same as listening to a headset since both will not interfere with each other then?

Thanks!
Ken

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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:22 pm

Hi again, you will find the instructions in the first 10 second of the video. You cannot use headphones for ambiophonics because it would sound like normal headphone stereo sound. Detail explanation can be found at ambio's official website.
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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by lhgin on Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:17 pm

Thanks STC for your dedicated + fast answers.

Let me try it out tonight. Smile

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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:21 pm

After a two months hiatus from ambiophonics, experimenting with stereo and 5.1 setup, I returned to move forward to fine tune the setup. Now the speakers are even more closer. Only 3 CDs gap in between the two. Just 40cm apart. Distance to sitting position is 2.11 meter.

I have also added another miniambio for the rear speakers so that I could experiment with different ITD and a better rear speakers. This also allowed me to readjust the front speakers soundstage to be around 120 degrees. Anyone else converted to ambio?

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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by scwong on Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:49 am

Looking forward to convert to ambio. Need some advice.  Do I have to fabricate the barrier (physical form) or download RACE will do?  I am running on two format.
 
1.  cdp - dac- pre/power
2.  laptop-usb/spdif-dac-pre/power.
 
Thanks a milion.

ps: Just read the whole tread and kind of understood its implementation.  Where can I purchase the miniAmbio?  Is it online, the only option?


Last edited by scwong on Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:37 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Add statement)

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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:57 pm

Hi,
 
You don't need the barrier. The barrier was used to demonstrated what was originally captured by the recording and what happens when we prevent the  interference sound from adjoining speaker reaches the opposite ear.
 
RACE replaces the barrier. You can use the many apps available for the laptop or use miniambo connected after the pre.
 
I am trying to share an excel calculator which I created to simplify the necessary calculation to give the speakers angle and the necessary delay for RACE setting.
 
It looks like the picture below but somehow I couldn't post the link from my Onedrive. If you need the excel please email. It is very useful to setup the speakers at correct distance which is about 20 degrees.


Last edited by STC on Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by scwong on Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:39 pm

Hi STC,

Would love to have the excel file.  anthonywalsaw@gmail.com

By the way, is the miniAmbio available locally in Malaysia or the only way would be to purchase online.  Understand that its USD 125 per unit.

Thanks for sharing.  Looking forward to the implementation.  Will feedback once it's done.

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Re: Final audiophile tweak - Convolution with Ambiophonics

Post by STC on Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:03 pm

Hello,

Yes, you have to get directly from Ambio4you. Meanwhile, I will email you the excel after minor adjustment. There was an error in the speakers angle in the earlier version.

Hope you like the ambio setup. Have tried the demos?

Cheers!


Last edited by STC on Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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